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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar Selverin » 30 Juil 2014 12:32

For polish players Paris is too far away. Germany is much more closer to center for everybody.
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar plicky » 30 Juil 2014 13:07

Selverin a écrit:For polish players Paris is too far away.


really!? :shock:
so, germany is too far away for spanish players?

Madrid - Düsseldorf: 2h30
Varsovie - Paris: 2h20
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar Selverin » 30 Juil 2014 13:42

I'm just telling you that it would be a problem for us. Germany is reach of car trip, Paris requires flight. Moreover Paris accomodation is more expensive than in Germany.

As for flight times i can probbly find players in Russia who will told that they have 4h flight to Paris.
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar plicky » 30 Juil 2014 14:04

say that you prefer germany to France for practical question ok.
but say "Paris is too far" while we try to accomodate for all countries (spansih as polish, english as greek, etc).
Hsiale propose poland to host the EC, so... what to say?
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar zwobot » 30 Juil 2014 22:49

So lets state one thing from the start. a EC should be a whole weekend, Saturday Swiss and first two rounds Cut Top 32, Sunday Top 16 Finals and Best of the Rest Tournament and Draft. Friday other formats.

So a three day stay accomedation will cost around 100€. Arriving on Friday, Starting the Tournament mornings and leaving on Sunday after the finals.

That would be possible in Germany with multiple locations, Youth hostels preferably, but those will be a minimum drive of an hour from an international Airport.

Why not use Maastricht or Brussels? Are there venues with such options?
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar hsiale » 30 Juil 2014 23:33

I feel a mistake some of you are making is treating this as if we were trying to make a one-off event, which will take place, finish, and it will be first and last Netrunner EC ever. Which makes it obvious that everyone will campaign for the event taking place as close as possible.

What I hope we're trying to do, is an event that will repeat each year, moving from one city to another. So one year Spanish players can drive and Polish have to fly, the next we move east and distances change. We should make use of fact that we are not, as FFG, tied to one place.

No matter what place we end up with any year, majority of players will be flying. There's no place that is within easy driving distance both from Madrid and Warsaw, both from London and Athens, both from Rome and Helsinki. That's why the absolutely most important requirement for tournament location is an international airport with good access to budget airlines (as I guess most people would prefer to use those). And, as accomodation will be another big cost generator (especially on years when we end up in major city in Western Europe like Paris or London), the top priority for organizers once the host city is chosen should be looking for cheap sleeping option (a school would be best, with some showers, enough floor to sleep on and tables to play if anyone needs playtesting). Two basic rules to have high attendance (and I guess that's what we want) is to keep the costs down and release the info early.

Zwobot a écrit:So lets state one thing from the start. a EC should be a whole weekend, Saturday Swiss and first two rounds Cut Top 32, Sunday Top 16 Finals and Best of the Rest Tournament and Draft.

100% agreed with full weekend event.

Zwobot a écrit:So a three day stay accomedation will cost around 100€.

Do you mean €100 for just sleeping, or for sleeping and food? No matter which one, if this is indeed the case, then this is a very good reason to organise this in Poland (Czech Republic/Hungary/etc). I just checked prices in a hostel I know. Very good location (city center, within 10 minutes walk from market square and railway station) and still cost for bed and breakfast, two nights (starting Friday, ending Sunday) is €17. For another €20 or so you will easily get food for remainder of the stay including a decent amount of beer if you like it ;) And this is before we add in any special prices you can get when you order for a group (when ordering lunch for Regionals a month ago, with approx. 30 people eating, I easily got a 10% down deal). I had no idea that Germany is that much more expensive than Poland.
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar MrMint » 30 Juil 2014 23:48

So lets state one thing from the start. a EC should be a whole weekend, Saturday Swiss and first two rounds Cut Top 32, Sunday Top 16 Finals and Best of the Rest Tournament and Draft. Friday other formats.
I think a 2 days event (sat./sun.) it's the right way to do it. Friday would already be use to set up the place I think (and it cost :iconecredit: :| ).

Why not use Maastricht or Brussels? Are there venues with such options?
I dunno for Maastricht but I'm currently looking for such venues in Brussels. I can't find a place where we could both play and sleep, for now. :|

I like the idea of Poland (or another eastern country) tho : sure it's maybe less central than, let's say Germany, but it could be effectively less expensive.

With a flight booked at least 3 months in advance, and according to Hsiale, it would actually cost me the same price than the France Championship this year. :mrgreen:
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar zwobot » 01 Aoû 2014 19:51

hsiale a écrit:Do you mean €100 for just sleeping, or for sleeping and food?


I mean 100€ for 2 nights and food on the three days in a youth hostel.
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar plicky » 03 Aoû 2014 13:15

I agree that the EC is turning every year but we must not forget that for the moment there is no EC!

To be taken seriously and be able to repeat the experience the following year, it must first be a success! and a remote location will always attract fewer people a central location. We must also unite the European community from the beginning, and I seriously think the first two years the EC must be done in a country like France or Germany. Of course I'm biased, but I say that objectively. ;)

It would be good if this month we got to decide on the country receiving the 2015 EC (and 2016?). And of course, in view of all that we put in place for make this tournament a Big European event, I hope the first EC will be in France.

I think a 2 days event (sat./sun.) it's the right way to do it.

agreed.
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar zwobot » 03 Aoû 2014 14:52

The only thing hindering in the moment is a date in a venue that qualifies for a big tounament?

Or du you want to register with FFG and the other distributor frist?
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar plicky » 06 Aoû 2014 16:44

to contact FFG, it would be nice to have the support of distributors before, and that we are agree on the country who host the EC.

the exactly date can be fixed then.

someone have any news from other distributors?
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar zwobot » 06 Aoû 2014 22:59

A Pre-Gencon Statement by the german distributor will not be made, after that i will meet them on the german nationals and try to get them on board.
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar hsiale » 07 Aoû 2014 23:01

plicky a écrit:To be taken seriously and be able to repeat the experience the following year, it must first be a success!

Yes, it must. And if participants have to spend €100 for eat&sleep alone, it won't be. Central and Eastern Europe participation will be close to 0, also people from Western Europe, unless they are really hardcore Netrunner tournament players, may decide the money will be better spent elsewhere. High attendance is the best measure of success for such event, and you get high attendance by keeping the costs low, so people who are on the fence about going don't have extra reasons to stay home. In Poland I can organize such event for €50ish total for eat&sleep&play (calculating for 100 players and prize kit costing 5-6 times more than Regionals kit, with no financial support other than what participants pay). If people are willing to sleep on the floor instead of beds or if publishers contribute to financing the prize support, it will go down.

If you want to organize this in Western Europe, go ahead. But take effort and research cheap options, this will increase attendance a lot. If hostels are too expensive, try schools. People who really want a bed and can afford it will find something anyway. But if you don't arrange a cheap place to sleep, we will not be able to arrange it by ourselves from another country.
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar plicky » 08 Aoû 2014 00:52

hsiale a écrit:
plicky a écrit:To be taken seriously and be able to repeat the experience the following year, it must first be a success!

Yes, it must. And if participants have to spend €100 for eat&sleep alone, it won't be. Central and Eastern Europe participation will be close to 0, also people from Western Europe, unless they are really hardcore Netrunner tournament players, may decide the money will be better spent elsewhere. High attendance is the best measure of success for such event, and you get high attendance by keeping the costs low, so people who are on the fence about going don't have extra reasons to stay home. In Poland I can organize such event for €50ish total for eat&sleep&play (calculating for 100 players and prize kit costing 5-6 times more than Regionals kit, with no financial support other than what participants pay). If people are willing to sleep on the floor instead of beds or if publishers contribute to financing the prize support, it will go down.

If you want to organize this in Western Europe, go ahead. But take effort and research cheap options, this will increase attendance a lot. If hostels are too expensive, try schools. People who really want a bed and can afford it will find something anyway. But if you don't arrange a cheap place to sleep, we will not be able to arrange it by ourselves from another country.


almost agreed but not all:

we must not only see the price of the tournament, but the price of the week-end, including transportation and the attractiveness of the city (more or less far).
it's better that everyone pays a little more to play and a little less to get around (what is the final balance) that disadvantage some communities who will pay more in the end due to the movement (due to the difference in the prices of airline tickets, even low cost) and therefore do not feel the difference in price, while they will have a longer path!

Then when you see the success Stahleck for aGoT (which is not the easiest to access) I'm not certain price differences are so important in the coming players while we remain in the same range of price (under 100€ for participation/sleeping/eating on a two days event + an easily accessible location).

we could try to formalize the EC without talking openly to the community before. If we have this approach is because we want to do things seriously and in the interest of all European players. When selverin said that Paris is too far for Polish, without our forward pricing, the opposite must be true (other players can also see it as in the other way) and it's not going in the direction of making the bigger tournament possible at the end of the Europe.... I seriously think that there will be more people if we make the EC in France, in Germany or in Belgium, (even if later the country changes, the first EC must attract more people as possible to facilitate the following), but this is just my opinion.

If we want to attract the most people, even discount, the first EC should not be at the other end of Europe for a big chunk of players! but it would be interesting to have the opinion of other remote communities!

of course we are looking for the place that offers a low rate, a close and cheaper access from all countries and fairly for all, otherwise we would not be here to discuss.
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Re: Welcome Here European TO !

Messagepar hsiale » 09 Juin 2015 07:07

Did anything come out of this idea? :)
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